Interesting "3rd"

[JohnEboy]

I noticed this "3rd " version for sale and it seemed like the line guide looked quite fat . Thought it may be interesting so bought the reel just so I could peek inside.

This reel has done interesting features like aluminium rotating head gear and the high position Aluvac 4189 foundry Mark

[Rockape]

My first post, so hopefully I have posted it in the correct place, if not, my apologies)

I also have exactly the same details on my own recently acquired half bail (plus plain baffle plate etc). The ad said it was an early 3rd, but maybe it is a late second version? No serial number.

The bail wire is at exactly the same angle as yours too (they seem to vary a lot).

[JohnEboy]

My first post, so hopefully I have posted it in the correct place, if not, my apologies)

I also have exactly the same details on my own recently acquired half bail (plus plain baffle plate etc). The ad said it was an early 3rd, but maybe it is a late second version? No serial number.

The bail wire is at exactly the same angle as yours too (they seem to vary a lot).

Hi Rockape and welcome to the forum.

Your reel does indeed sound like a very nice early 3rd version . Typically people might look to the anti reverse and if it is round they might think 1st or 2nd and then with a boomerang suggest a 3rd , even if they all share other early features like the aluminium rotor gear and high foundry mark etc .

kind regards
John

[Rockape]

Hi John,

Thank you for your kind welcome and your answer to my question.

I have a few of the more obvious 3rd versions, with the slotted baffle plate etc, and I was quite excited to snag this earlier one with its dumpy line guide and different bail arm spring (as per the earliest ones from photos I have seen on the net). And yes it was that bail spring and aluminium rotor gear that made me automatically think late 2nd version, but I am still learning, so thank you for the clarification.

I have a nice clean one with the round anti reverse knob on the way too (after a very long time of missing out on the bidding), so I am hopeful this will indeed be a proper 2nd version.

I have spent the last year collecting all of the Mitchells I drooled over as a kid and could never afford at the time.
I did eventually get myself a sky blue 410A (in the early 80's I think it was), which I cherished at the time, but later gave it away.... ouch!).

The Mitchell Match was quite popular in the UK back then, and has been one of my favourites to collect; from the otomatics thro midnight blue early 70's models to the last of the French built 440a models.

It was after finding my late father's 3rd version half bail during a clear out that I got the Mitchell collecting bug, and as I mentioned earlier in this post, I have since obtained a few more half bails plus one or two slightly later full bail 300 versions.

It's really great to find this forum and have access to so much experience and knowledge from everyone.

Thanks again.

Paul

[JohnEboy]

Hi John,

Thank you for your kind welcome and your answer to my question.

I have a few of the more obvious 3rd versions, with the slotted baffle plate etc, and I was quite excited to snag this earlier one with its dumpy line guide and different bail arm spring (as per the earliest ones from photos I have seen on the net). And yes it was that bail spring and aluminium rotor gear that made me automatically think late 2nd version, but I am still learning, so thank you for the clarification.

I have a nice clean one with the round anti reverse knob on the way too (after a very long time of missing out on the bidding), so I am hopeful this will indeed be a proper 2nd version.

I have spent the last year collecting all of the Mitchells I drooled over as a kid and could never afford at the time.
I did eventually get myself a sky blue 410A (in the early 80's I think it was), which I cherished at the time, but later gave it away.... ouch!).

The Mitchell Match was quite popular in the UK back then, and has been one of my favourites to collect; from the otomatics thro midnight blue early 70's models to the last of the French built 440a models.

It was after finding my late father's 3rd version half bail during a clear out that I got the Mitchell collecting bug, and as I mentioned earlier in this post, I have since obtained a few more half bails plus one or two slightly later full bail 300 versions.

It's really great to find this forum and have access to so much experience and knowledge from everyone.

Thanks again.

Paul

Hi Paul

I recall seeing a very Nice 2nd and 3rd being sold together on ebay a few days ago , perhaps it was those you bought ? They looked very good indeed .

Lovely that you are adding to your late father reel and building a collection .

John

[Rockape]

Yes, that was me. I won them both on Friday, so as you can imagine, I am pretty excited to get a close look at them and add them to my collection. Added to which, having lost every 2nd version I bid for over the past year, I truly didn't expect to win that one plus a 3rd version at the same time, so I am really blown away with the result.

Cheers!

[JohnEboy]

Yes, that was me. I won them both on Friday, so as you can imagine, I am pretty excited to get a close look at them and add them to my collection. Added to which, having lost every 2nd version I bid for over the past year, I truly didn't expect to win that one plus a 3rd version at the same time, so I am really blown away with the result.

Cheers!

Ah many congratulations Paul , they looked like a fine pair of early reels . I was watching them for a few days and then asked the chap to put extra photos up . I had intended to bid but got sidetracked on the day and missed out Glad they have gone to a good home .
Best wishes

[GreatLaker]

John,
Thanks for sharing your new reel with us. I absolutely love it when I open a 3rd version and find a 2nd version rotating head with the aluminum alloy bevel gear. Also great fun examining a new reel for other features.
Guess I have been lucky finding quite a few such reels for my collection. Seems like more than one or two aluminum alloy bevel gear rotors carried over into the 3rd version run. I also find quite a few 1st and 2nd version baffle plates on 3rd version reels as well as handles, spools, transfer gears, and pivot gears. Also look for the steel magnetic cover plate screws which show up from time to time from the 1st and 2nd versions.

The, what has been called bulbous, line guides from the first three versions are always a desired feature for me. These, I believe, are in all likelihood made from tungsten carbide. I believe it was not long into 3rd version production that the line guide material changed from tungsten carbide to another alloy called Duraloy. With the change, the former bulbous shape was dropped and was refined and narrowed. I believe Mitchell experimented with Duraloy, instead of tungsten, for quite some time but eventually went back to tungsten for the line guide material.

Kind Regards,
Bill

[Rockape]

Thank you John, they will be cherished, believe me (sorry for hijacking your thread, just over enthusiasm on my part I'm afraid).

Enjoyed your post too Bill.

If it's ok with you John, I would like to post some photos I took during the service I did on my own early 3rd version?

[JohnEboy]

John,
Thanks for sharing your new reel with us. I absolutely love it when I open a 3rd version and find a 2nd version rotating head with the aluminum alloy bevel gear. Also great fun examining a new reel for other features.
Guess I have been lucky finding quite a few such reels for my collection. Seems like more than one or two aluminum alloy bevel gear rotors carried over into the 3rd version run. I also find quite a few 1st and 2nd version baffle plates on 3rd version reels as well as handles, spools, transfer gears, and pivot gears. Also look for the steel magnetic cover plate screws which show up from time to time from the 1st and 2nd versions.

The, what has been called bulbous, line guides from the first three versions are always a desired feature for me. These, I believe, are in all likelihood made from tungsten carbide. I believe it was not long into 3rd version production that the line guide material changed from tungsten carbide to another alloy called Duraloy. With the change, the former bulbous shape was dropped and was refined and narrowed. I believe Mitchell experimented with Duraloy, instead of tungsten, for quite some time but eventually went back to tungsten for the line guide material.

Kind Regards,
Bill

Thanks Bill
The bulbous line guard is something I look for in the hope of finding an early 3rd with alloy rotor gear .
I love opening them up to look for features .

I have been surprised by how many alloy rotor gears I am finding .

as ever , thanks you for sharing the information you have .

best wishes

[JohnEboy]

Thank you John, they will be cherished, believe me (sorry for hijacking your thread, just over enthusiasm on my part I'm afraid).

Enjoyed your post too Bill.

If it's ok with you John, I would like to post some photos I took during the service I did on my own early 3rd version?

Ho thread hijack at all Paul , all good interesting discussion is appreciated .

look forward to seeing your photos

best wishes

[Rockape]

Thank you John.

I'm sure your reel is pretty much identical to this:

[Rockape]

And fully cleaned and serviced:

[JohnEboy]

And fully cleaned and serviced:

Hey Paul , that one is a real cracker such a nice reel .

May I ask if you could looka at something for me and perhaps post a photo please ?

These reels have an Aluvac 4189 foundry mark at the bottom of the slide , sometimes they are underneath the lower part of the slide . Can I ask where your mark is ? Can you see it below the slide without removing the slide ?

Best wishes

[Rockape]

I didn't think to check that detail when I had it apart, but certainly, when I get the two incoming reels on my workbench, I will also strip down that reel in question and photograph the foundry stamps for you (I'll photograph them all), so that should be before the end of the week, if that's ok?

I think the incoming 3rd version is an early one also, so lots of pics to be taken.

Best regards,

Paul

[JohnEboy]

I didn't think to check that detail when I had it apart, but certainly, when I get the two incoming reels on my workbench, I will also strip down that reel in question and photograph the foundry stamps for you (I'll photograph them all), so that should be before the end of the week, if that's ok?

I think the incoming 3rd version is an early one also, so lots of pics to be taken.

Best regards,

Paul

That would be great Paul , many thanks .

John

[Rockape]

Hi John,

Well, curiosity got the better of me, and I stripped my reel down to check the foundry marks, and I was a little surprised seeing no foundry mark in the body???

However, it looks like the gear/cover plate is the same as yours, well almost.

[Rockape]

I also noticed some differences in the 'Made in France' castings. My version seems to appear on later 3rd versions, but I haven't managed to compile enough images of very early ones to come to any firm conclusions.

[JohnEboy]

Hi John,

Well, curiosity got the better of me, and I stripped my reel down to check the foundry marks, and I was a little surprised seeing no foundry mark in the body???

However, it looks like the gear/cover plate is the same as yours, well almost.

Curiosity would have gotten the better of me too .
Thanks for doing that Paul , Yes very surprising not seeing a foundry mark inside the body .

I found it very interesting asking engineers about the ejector pins marks and having the foundry marks on them , whole new world of knowledge from others kind enough to share theirs .

Lovely clean reel that one . Bet you cant wait for the other two to arrive and open them up .

John

[Rockape]

Yes, I am really looking forward to getting stuck into those two.
I will of course take a lot of photos and share them all with you (hoping they will be everything they should be).

I will confess to being a little concernd that the main body of my reel may be from a slightly later one (not the first time that has happened to me).

That MIF casting matches that of an A serial and a B serial (number on the body) that I found online, but maybe I am worrying about nothing, it is of the period and it wasn't an expensive buy, so...

Not too long ago I used an old A serial body to replace a 1960 body that someone had fitted to a late 3rd version reel, presumably, because the original stem had broken around that time; sadly the early main drive gear on the donor reel had the threads stripped out, so I had to use the version 3/4 gears. That was a very inexpensive buy also, so it was not as heart breaking a discovery as it could have been (an awful lot of years in which changes can be made... some necessary of course).

Cheers!

[GreatLaker]

John,
One other question regarding your reel. Do you see any evidence of the orange colored primer on either the rotor, housing, or cover plate? I can't see any from the photo. As you probably know the primer started with the 2nd version reels and carried on with the 3rd version reels. Some reels have been found with a grey colored primer just to make things more mysterious.
Kind Regards,
Bill

[JohnEboy]

John,
One other question regarding your reel. Do you see any evidence of the orange colored primer on either the rotor, housing, or cover plate? I can't see any from the photo. As you probably know the primer started with the 2nd version reels and carried on with the 3rd version reels. Some reels have been found with a grey colored primer just to make things more mysterious.
Kind Regards,
Bill

Hi Bill
Yes indeed , very feint signs of orange on rotor , body and cover . it had come off so cleanly with the black paint it was barely noticeable , I had to use a jewellers Loupe to see it , but maybe thats just my ageing eyes

Best wishes
John